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	<title>Comments on: White People with Big Shelves</title>
	<atom:link href="http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/</link>
	<description>Urban Sociology and Urbanism, in China and North America</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:41:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Superiority Complex</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-1075</link>
		<dc:creator>Superiority Complex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 04:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-1075</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an interesting experiment, and as is suggested above, when you write a book about it in two years, you should be able to make decent money off the royalties.  I&#039;m an American living here, and I feel that I&#039;m reasonably culturally sensitive, I&#039;ve studied Chinese for 7 years, living in the greater China area for 3 of those, and I have to say that I can&#039;t understand all the hate for American expats.  Maybe it&#039;s because I am an American expat, and I&#039;m just too big headed to see how corrupt and disrespectful we all are, but in my experience, I have found much more friendly culturally conscious people among American expats than any other group.  Again, it&#039;s probably just my own bias, but I think continental Europeans, with the possible exception of Germans, have been some of the least culturally conscious people I&#039;ve met here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an interesting experiment, and as is suggested above, when you write a book about it in two years, you should be able to make decent money off the royalties.  I&#8217;m an American living here, and I feel that I&#8217;m reasonably culturally sensitive, I&#8217;ve studied Chinese for 7 years, living in the greater China area for 3 of those, and I have to say that I can&#8217;t understand all the hate for American expats.  Maybe it&#8217;s because I am an American expat, and I&#8217;m just too big headed to see how corrupt and disrespectful we all are, but in my experience, I have found much more friendly culturally conscious people among American expats than any other group.  Again, it&#8217;s probably just my own bias, but I think continental Europeans, with the possible exception of Germans, have been some of the least culturally conscious people I&#8217;ve met here.</p>
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		<title>By: i lirve in beijing</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-983</link>
		<dc:creator>i lirve in beijing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 07:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-983</guid>
		<description>My situation is different: I&#039;m a student here studying Chinese, so my friends all speak at least some level of Chinese and have some level of interest in the language and culture here.

But from my experience foreigners here respect the 外地人 in service jobs a lot more than my beijing friends. I think it&#039;s because most of my western friends probably have worked in some service jobs back when they were in the west, and know what annoying customers are like, while a lot of young beijing kids live off their parents&#039; money until they graduate from university, and head straight into white-collar positions using their extended family&#039;s guanxi.  There are good and bad people in every lot, of course.

Your experiment is interesting. I think it&#039;s worth it that you do this: the knowledge, wisdom, and entertainment gained through this surely outweighs the apparent patronizing aspects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My situation is different: I&#8217;m a student here studying Chinese, so my friends all speak at least some level of Chinese and have some level of interest in the language and culture here.</p>
<p>But from my experience foreigners here respect the 外地人 in service jobs a lot more than my beijing friends. I think it&#8217;s because most of my western friends probably have worked in some service jobs back when they were in the west, and know what annoying customers are like, while a lot of young beijing kids live off their parents&#8217; money until they graduate from university, and head straight into white-collar positions using their extended family&#8217;s guanxi.  There are good and bad people in every lot, of course.</p>
<p>Your experiment is interesting. I think it&#8217;s worth it that you do this: the knowledge, wisdom, and entertainment gained through this surely outweighs the apparent patronizing aspects.</p>
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		<title>By: Dushka</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-967</link>
		<dc:creator>Dushka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 13:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-967</guid>
		<description>You get people of every race &amp; nationality on the planet that are rude &amp; ignorant.  Some times it can be blamed on cultural differences, but the majority of the time it is a lack of manners &amp; respect.

I currently work in a bakers in a small tourist town in the UK.  We get tourists from all over the world coming in to our shop.  Some people are pleasant others deem you to be beneath them because you work in a shop serving them.  Several foreign customers come &amp; struggle to speak a word of English, so you have to spend more time helping them with their order using facial expressions &amp; other methods of communication.  Many of them smile back at you &amp; nod, others though grunt, shout out instructions in their own language &amp; barely acknowledge the time you have taken to help.  At the end of the day people from completely different cultural backgrounds &amp; who speak different languages can still be polite to each other in they try.  It is all about taking the time to show one another respect.

Rudeness is not just a Chinese or Western problem it is a global problem.  Great blog by the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You get people of every race &amp; nationality on the planet that are rude &amp; ignorant.  Some times it can be blamed on cultural differences, but the majority of the time it is a lack of manners &amp; respect.</p>
<p>I currently work in a bakers in a small tourist town in the UK.  We get tourists from all over the world coming in to our shop.  Some people are pleasant others deem you to be beneath them because you work in a shop serving them.  Several foreign customers come &amp; struggle to speak a word of English, so you have to spend more time helping them with their order using facial expressions &amp; other methods of communication.  Many of them smile back at you &amp; nod, others though grunt, shout out instructions in their own language &amp; barely acknowledge the time you have taken to help.  At the end of the day people from completely different cultural backgrounds &amp; who speak different languages can still be polite to each other in they try.  It is all about taking the time to show one another respect.</p>
<p>Rudeness is not just a Chinese or Western problem it is a global problem.  Great blog by the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Some Advice</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-961</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Some Advice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 04:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-961</guid>
		<description>You need to find better western friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need to find better western friends.</p>
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		<title>By: MF</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator>MF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 15:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-930</guid>
		<description>If your so-called friends visit your shop and make a few jokes, and if that upsets your, are they really your friends? I think you should have a serious talk with them. What do you mean by &quot;friends&quot; and why do you judge them so severely!

In the west, we have many words for friends, indicating closeness or distance. It seems to me that these people were not very close friends. So, they came to your shop, and made jokes. It seems you cannot take a joke. If you cannot talk to them seriously then do not use the word &quot;friends&quot;.

Why are you upset? Are your &quot;friends&quot; basically &quot;white trash&quot; living in Shanghai? Come on, why do you call them your friends. 

A lot of Chinese are all over the world, doing their thing. If people start calling overseas Chinese &quot;Chinese trash&quot;, maybe you would be very hurt. Here in Japan there are certainly a lot of Chinese with a big shelf. I am not Japanese, I am from Europe, and one thing I can notice is that Chinese here in Japan are not so good at the old adage, &quot;When in Rome, do as the Romans&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If your so-called friends visit your shop and make a few jokes, and if that upsets your, are they really your friends? I think you should have a serious talk with them. What do you mean by &#8220;friends&#8221; and why do you judge them so severely!</p>
<p>In the west, we have many words for friends, indicating closeness or distance. It seems to me that these people were not very close friends. So, they came to your shop, and made jokes. It seems you cannot take a joke. If you cannot talk to them seriously then do not use the word &#8220;friends&#8221;.</p>
<p>Why are you upset? Are your &#8220;friends&#8221; basically &#8220;white trash&#8221; living in Shanghai? Come on, why do you call them your friends. </p>
<p>A lot of Chinese are all over the world, doing their thing. If people start calling overseas Chinese &#8220;Chinese trash&#8221;, maybe you would be very hurt. Here in Japan there are certainly a lot of Chinese with a big shelf. I am not Japanese, I am from Europe, and one thing I can notice is that Chinese here in Japan are not so good at the old adage, &#8220;When in Rome, do as the Romans&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-927</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 14:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-927</guid>
		<description>Doing the “nice Jewish boy” routine also helps. Neither side is superior or inferior, just different. 

---------

Ever heard about Israel and the chosen people who rule that place? But sure, in China, being Jewish does help - ethnic purity, superiority are some of the values that Chinese share with the,. Sionist organizations are, as you may know, very active in this country (but then again, so are various other US-sponsored sects - including Amway and Herbalife). Did I mention the blackstone deal?

Believe it or not, but posting this could get me into major trouble under the laws of my country (heavy fines, losing my job etc).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doing the “nice Jewish boy” routine also helps. Neither side is superior or inferior, just different. </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Ever heard about Israel and the chosen people who rule that place? But sure, in China, being Jewish does help &#8211; ethnic purity, superiority are some of the values that Chinese share with the,. Sionist organizations are, as you may know, very active in this country (but then again, so are various other US-sponsored sects &#8211; including Amway and Herbalife). Did I mention the blackstone deal?</p>
<p>Believe it or not, but posting this could get me into major trouble under the laws of my country (heavy fines, losing my job etc).</p>
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		<title>By: zuraffo</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator>zuraffo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 04:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-910</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting entry. I have read all the comments and I found many valid points among them. However, I think it wouldn&#039;t be fair to explain it along the racial divide, even if it did occur more frequently along that line. 

Speaking personally, I am always concious that whenever I go to somebody else&#039;s shop/workplace/company/etc, I am a guest and the employers (and employees, to a lesser extend) are the hosts. I would expect certain kind of respect to be given on both side. Many people nowadays seemed unconcious about the role of host/guest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting entry. I have read all the comments and I found many valid points among them. However, I think it wouldn&#8217;t be fair to explain it along the racial divide, even if it did occur more frequently along that line. </p>
<p>Speaking personally, I am always concious that whenever I go to somebody else&#8217;s shop/workplace/company/etc, I am a guest and the employers (and employees, to a lesser extend) are the hosts. I would expect certain kind of respect to be given on both side. Many people nowadays seemed unconcious about the role of host/guest.</p>
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		<title>By: Law Office of Todd L. Platek</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator>Law Office of Todd L. Platek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 21:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-898</guid>
		<description>Ben, you&#039;re doing it right.  Wish I was your age again.  When I was, I went native in Taiwan for 3 years (Mao wouldn&#039;t let us in at that time) and just kept an open mind.  Doing the &quot;nice Jewish boy&quot; routine also helps.  Neither side is superior or inferior,  just different.  But, hey, play the American card as much as possible with the girls, what the heck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, you&#8217;re doing it right.  Wish I was your age again.  When I was, I went native in Taiwan for 3 years (Mao wouldn&#8217;t let us in at that time) and just kept an open mind.  Doing the &#8220;nice Jewish boy&#8221; routine also helps.  Neither side is superior or inferior,  just different.  But, hey, play the American card as much as possible with the girls, what the heck!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-886</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 14:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-886</guid>
		<description>Hi There,

I dont see this as a Western vs. Chinese issue. With all due respects, your friends sound like ignorant brats. Most likely young English teachers from the US. And your boss has a whole theory about Westerners because he hasnt met that many or the few he has met were complaining when he almost ran over them with his car at the pedestrian crossing. In any case, the most obnoxious bastards you meet here are not the white trash that has poured on Shanghai since 2004 (your friends) but the officials in the big black cars and rich &quot;entrepreneurs&quot; (those who stole SOE&#039;s assets).

I know your post has had a lot of success - good comments all over the internet, especially in China-related blogs (that how I came here). Congrats for that but I think your analysis is incorrect.

Cheers and keep up the good work at the barbershop</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi There,</p>
<p>I dont see this as a Western vs. Chinese issue. With all due respects, your friends sound like ignorant brats. Most likely young English teachers from the US. And your boss has a whole theory about Westerners because he hasnt met that many or the few he has met were complaining when he almost ran over them with his car at the pedestrian crossing. In any case, the most obnoxious bastards you meet here are not the white trash that has poured on Shanghai since 2004 (your friends) but the officials in the big black cars and rich &#8220;entrepreneurs&#8221; (those who stole SOE&#8217;s assets).</p>
<p>I know your post has had a lot of success &#8211; good comments all over the internet, especially in China-related blogs (that how I came here). Congrats for that but I think your analysis is incorrect.</p>
<p>Cheers and keep up the good work at the barbershop</p>
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		<title>By: Law Office of Todd L. Platek</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/white-people-with-big-shelves/2007/05/17/comment-page-1/#comment-884</link>
		<dc:creator>Law Office of Todd L. Platek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 13:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.benross.net/wordpress/?p=69#comment-884</guid>
		<description>I represent a lot of Chinese companies in NY/NJ area, and Americans who deal with them.  Recently, at a luncheon in a great steakhouse in NY I arranged for a Chinese client and American client , both of whom also do business with each other with me in the middle as lawyer, the two Chinese guests paid deferential lip service to the American at the table (i.e. the other American, not me), but spent the other 90% of the time speaking with me in Chinese.  Since my Mandarin is fluent, no problem, right? That&#039;s not the point.  I constantly spoke some English in between, hoping the Chinese would get the message and involve the other American, who was politely eating his steak, in the conversations.  Result? They DIDN&#039;T get the point.  
So, as a 54-year old American who&#039;s been in China/Taiwan for the last 30 years and with his own former guilt complex about how we Americans are insensitive to others&#039; cultural feelings,  I can safely tell you that all people are the same.  The key is to be sensitive and less ethnocentric, no matter whether non-Chinese or Chinese. Oh, by the way, the Chinese finished the meal heartily, thanked the other American also, and they are still doing good business with the other fellow, and begrudgingly using English to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I represent a lot of Chinese companies in NY/NJ area, and Americans who deal with them.  Recently, at a luncheon in a great steakhouse in NY I arranged for a Chinese client and American client , both of whom also do business with each other with me in the middle as lawyer, the two Chinese guests paid deferential lip service to the American at the table (i.e. the other American, not me), but spent the other 90% of the time speaking with me in Chinese.  Since my Mandarin is fluent, no problem, right? That&#8217;s not the point.  I constantly spoke some English in between, hoping the Chinese would get the message and involve the other American, who was politely eating his steak, in the conversations.  Result? They DIDN&#8217;T get the point.<br />
So, as a 54-year old American who&#8217;s been in China/Taiwan for the last 30 years and with his own former guilt complex about how we Americans are insensitive to others&#8217; cultural feelings,  I can safely tell you that all people are the same.  The key is to be sensitive and less ethnocentric, no matter whether non-Chinese or Chinese. Oh, by the way, the Chinese finished the meal heartily, thanked the other American also, and they are still doing good business with the other fellow, and begrudgingly using English to do so.</p>
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