Comments on: To Cheat or Not to Cheat

By: Al

Al — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:18:53 +0000

Hey Ben, TIC (This is China) man. Just have to get used to it. I am of chinese heritage but grew up outside China. Even though I speak Mandarin perfectly but I do exhibit sort of an accent. Even so, many shop owners still try to rip me off. I usually get the right pricing by virtue of being in China for years. The important thing is, if you get to your expected and acceptable price range, do not look back and kick yourself for not getting the best deal. About fake bills, my store once received 4 fake 100 bills. They got pass the checking machine and I realized these were pro-level fakes. The people using it are probably from organized crime since we got all of them in 2 days from different people, buying the cheapest thing on the menu. Half the bills are from a real 100 RMB bill. Personally, I only once got a fake 20 RMB note in all my years in China. The fact I am in Shanghai also helps since people here are so paranoid about fake bills.

By: LT

LT — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:23:28 +0000

BTW, the first fake Y50 note I got was from a taxi driver. It was very early in the morning, I was traveling, it was dark. Bingo!

By: LT

LT — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:12:26 +0000

I think Melody is quite sincere, but frankly, a little quaint and cute. Does she not think that owner new what she was doing? That it was wrong?

I’m quite impressed that you caught the owner with the second bill attempt, that was pretty rock’n. I would probably have folded at that point.

By: Shanghai Roundeye

Shanghai Roundeye — Mon, 28 May 2007 14:48:01 +0000

I’m with you on the customer service rants. As a bar/restaurant manager I have to deal with my staff attempting to rip off clients as well as the bar. The other night some friends came to the bar and sat at a couch table. The staff supervisor told the waiter to tell my friends that they had to purchase a minimum 400rmb to sit at the table. The thing is that there is no charge for sitting at these places and my friends were really confused. They asked me about why the waiter was demanding they spend 400rmb or buy a bottle of alcohol (about the same price). I was so angry that I had to sit in the office and calm myself down before finding which little asshole was responsible. When it turned out that the waiter was directed to do this by the person that is normally my right-hand man I was astonished. I asked the staff aupervisor why he had told the waiter to do this and he repliedl, “They didn’t look like would spend much money.” After holding my breath and counting to 10 I explained the concept of creating a comfortable environment that made customers want to come back instead of trying to sqeeze every last jiao out of them.

I overheard him say in Chinese to my boss that I must just be mad because they were my friends. To my relief, my boss told him he was an idiot and that she didn’t care who the customers were and that you can’t treat customers like that.

That being said, my boss is pretty Western for a Chinese person and understands Western service standards. I see this “rip off the forigner” attitude in many places in Shanghai but the bar scene is the worst. Waiters and bartentders make 50 to 70 rmb a night average. What better source of extra income then an inebriated foriegner?

By: Law Office of Todd L. Platek

Law Office of Todd L. Platek — Thu, 24 May 2007 13:25:46 +0000

Ben, Ben, Ben… don’t get so worked up over stuff like this. Same stuff happens here in NY. It’s not ethnic, just economic. I used to get pissed off in Taipei in the 1970’s when I would buy chocolate milk in the mornings, and sometimes it would be sour. I would ask the boss, usually the hard-as-nails “lao ban niang”, how come the milk was sour? The answer was simple and straight-forward : she had just turned the cooler’s electricity on a half-hour ago, so the milk needed time to get cold again. (The fact that it had turned rancid overnight in the heat, since she always turned off the cooler at 11:30 p.m., was beyond her control — hey, look, she had to save money on electricity, right? After all, no customers buy when the shop is closed!!)
I didn’t throw a tantrum, or break the windows, or deck her, or do any of a thousand other fantasy-satisfying vengeful acts. I laughed, and after that, I would ask her each morning whether the chocolate milk was fresh to drink, and believe it or not, Ben, she always laughed and told me the truth each day, either warning me not to buy it, or saying it was fine to drink.
P.S.: I got this special treatment because I was white, spoke fluent Chinese and was friendly. She never warned any Chinese not to buy that rancid milk!
So, if you think Chinese are racist, use it to your advantage. Personally, I do not think Chinese are racist. People are people, and usually worse to their own kind than to others.

By: Malcolm

Malcolm — Sun, 20 May 2007 13:31:49 +0000

I like to study the chinese language- one phrase I found to ring true for businessmen in China (and Asia): wujian bu shang: If you ain’t evil, you ain’t a businessman.

In any case, I assure you: the chinese rip off each other left and right. I know this because…. I am ethnic Chinese. The concept is simple: if you’re in a position of weakness (e.g. you’re not local to a particular city), someone will try to rip you off. And the fact is, even if you ARE local to a city, some fool will still try to rip you off- odds are lower though. A white person is going to get ripped off because he’s obviously not local- the common denominator for cheating is really having the weak bargaining chip (=lack of “hangqing” knowledge), not race.

Avoid this by asking how much something is, before you buy it. That puts you in a position of strength- the seller has the pressure of giving you a reasonable price, or you just walk (may not work as well when price differentials are 3rmb though). You also avoid bait and switch, which is common in many countries, and prevalent in China. You may not be able to avoid all conflicts in China (fact of life here), but you want to try to reduce the probability of getting worked up into a dander by some uneducated, greedy fool.

By: fred

fred — Sun, 06 May 2007 16:25:31 +0000

May I suggest walking in to the restaurant with your shirt rolled half way up your torso, man purse tucked gently under your armpit. Proceed to seat yourself at a table without acknowledging anyone. Prior to sitting at the table produce the loudest possible noise that you can whilst pulling as much phlegm as possible from your lungs and spitting on the floor beside your table. Then clear each nostril. Next, you should proceed to insult the staff and customers in a loud a voice as possible (This lets them know you, an important man, have arrived). Demand the best bei jiu for under 30rmb and proceed to drink it as fast as possible. Pick an appropriate time to order the same dish as before. Somewhere in the middle of your meal either piss or puke on the remaining dishes and ask for the maidan. When the bill arives make a big scene, force them to give you a 5 quai discount and pay the bill. stumble gracefully in to a taxi. Problem solved.

Best of luck mate.

By: Lawrence Sheed

Lawrence Sheed — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:01:50 +0000

I think all visibly foreign looking foreigners been in this situation, usually listening to the chinese blatantly telling each other charge the laowai more.

I find the country folks in the big city are usually less inclined to rip you off (or they rip you off for what they think is a lot, but really isn’t).

You have to build up a relationship before you get a deal here.

If you weren’t so direct about her “mistake”, she might have had a chance to say oops. People will generally dig themselves into a bigger hole when caught in a lie.

That said, she sounds like a greedy so-and-so as she tried to stiff you on the fake money too. Karma will eventually get her if that is her daily way of doing things.

If you like the place, go back (during lunch hours) and give the laobanya a chance to save some face. Only pay the price thats on the menu. If she raises a fuss, ask all the other clients rather loudly (but calmly) what they are paying, and never go back again.

By: Bart

Bart — Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:35:55 +0000

I’m sure every foreigner in China has their own stories like this, and we’re never quite sure if they are trying to cheat us just because we are “rich, naive” foreigners. Often, a Chinese person in the same situation would’ve received the same treatment. My Chinese friends say that people from outside the city are targets for cheating, and I guess we are on the extreme end there – not only from another city, but from another country and culture, and that fact is advertised by the way we look and speak (few of us non-Chinese have a ‘perfect’ Chinese accent).

However, there are just as many example of blatant racism. Racism that would end up with you or your company in court in the West. Such as when I took my family to Beijing and wanted them to experience a ‘genuine Chinese’ massage – the cheapest we could find, which was advertised as 10 RMB on a sign outside. The owner of this establishment said outright to my Chinese wife “you’re 10 RMB, but they’re 30.” After being in that situation before several times, I know the only response that will leave me satisfied is to practice some of the derogatory Chinese words I’ve learned and leave. There is no negotiating.

Imagine the fuss that would cause if a massage joint in the West said that to a Chinese customer.

By: b. cheng

b. cheng — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:07:11 +0000

I tend to like the first explanation. To me, the Cultural Revolution era and the havoc that it created across China is to blame for much of the lack of civility and caring for your fellow man that exists in China today.

Unfortunately, they may have thought you were just a one time visitor and attempted to take a bit more money off of you or maybe presumed that though you could speak Chinese you couldn’t read it (especially since you didn’t order from the menu).

What can I say? This sort of thing just has to be considered another “China moment.”