12.19.07
My 28(29)th birthday
Today is my 28th birthday. However, in China I’m 29. How is this possible? I asked the same question during my first Chinese birthday. In China there are two ways to count age, one is 周岁 (zhou1 sui4) and the other is 属岁 (shu3 sui4). 周岁are years as counted in the West…I was born on December 18, 1979, so on December 18, 1980 I turned 1. According to 属岁 I turned 2 on December 18, 1980, as I had already turned 1 that snowy morning in 1979 when I popped out of my mother.
What’s the logic behind this? When I’ve asked Chinese friends, the response I usually get is that since you were already in your mother for almost a year, then when you’re born you should already be a year old. In other words, the Chinese believe that life begins at conception, however you wouldn’t know it based on their views on abortion. Apparently they also believe in rounding numbers, as most normal, healthy, human pregnancies tend not to reach the 1 year mark.
So in China everybody has 2 ages. The 周岁 are used for official and legal purposes, for example, whether or not you are old enough to get into an Internet bar (the age limit is 18 周岁), but for just about everything else, people use 属岁. 9 times out of 10 when you ask a Chinese person their age, you will get an answer in 属岁.
So this seems easy enough…your Western age plus one equals your Chinese birthday. If only things were this simple. With the upcoming Chinese New Year, I will likely get messages from Chinese friends congratulating me on reaching 30. How can this be? This is where the logic gets a little fuzzy, and I would appreciate some further clarification. As has been explained to me, since the ancient Chinese used the lunar calendar, everybody has a Chinese birthday as well. Somehow, however, we all gain a year every time there is a new Chinese New Year. This raises two questions. Firstly, why does everybody’s age increase on New Years as opposed to their bona fide Chinese birthday. Secondly, if there are two points during a year when my age increases, shouldn’t I be turning 55 today instead of 28?
After much frustration trying to understand the inner mathematics of Chinese birthday counting, I finally came to a conclusion. If you want to know how old a Chinese person is, don’t ask them their age. Avoid all the confusion and simply ask them what year they were born. You can do the math yourself.
maxiewawa
said,
December 18, 2007 at 5:10 pm
I was surprised when teaching the English phrase “how old are you” to some primary aged students. None of them could give me a straight answer. Some got out pocket calculators, some started counting on their fingers… some kids just gave me a flat out “I don’t know”. From then whenever I teach “how old are you” I tell the kids to make it up if they don’t know.
xge
said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Whoever told you about the theory on how Chinese count their ages, they probably made it up on the spot. It is just the way it is. I don’t think there is a reason or any philosophy behind it.
The way Chinese people count their age, they just counts how many Chinese years they have lived after they were born. For example, if you were born on a Chinese new year’s eve, then in the next morning, you are 2 years of age, because you have already lived 2 of the Chinese years. And you will become 3 years old in the next Chinese new year. So just add 1 to your western age is not always correct. For some people, you have to add 2.
豪杰
said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Plus there is the whole tradition of you being a year later on New Year’s Day, not on your birthday to even add more confusion to how old you are in China.
cub18
said,
December 19, 2007 at 9:48 am
Happy birthday! Incredible, when I google ‘barbershop in China’ for a script,then access your blog by accident. I am Chinese and now teach Chinese in Michigan. I come from Fuzhou and I find you spent 3.5 years in my hometown!
Benjamin Ross
said,
December 19, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Another interesting cultural difference that I didn’t mention in the original post is that in China when it’s YOUR birthday YOU have to pay for everything, the party, the food, the drinks, etc. In the US, the birthday boy gets everything paid for. So yesterday I had a nice combination of authentic Cantonese food for lunch, and BBQ ribs for dinner…all compliments of friends. The last time I had a birthday party in China, I ended up shelling out 500 kuai, for several pounds of 水煮活鱼 and bunch of Tsingtao. I guess it all evens out in the end.
Alan
said,
December 19, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Ben, I think you have too much exposure to Fuzhou culture while in China.
Most Chinese whom I know still count ages the way Americans do. XGE’s comment is pretty accurate. His comment also reminds me of a “Rooms To Go” commercial aired many years ago. I remember the commercial was aired in December of some year in the 90s. It went something like this. “Buy now and make no payments until NOT 1996, NOT 1997, but January 1, 1998.” In reality, it was a 12-month delayed payment, but they sounded like a 3-year delayed payment. In Chinese culture, it’s desirable to be older. Hence, people traditionally added 1 year to their age for each Chinese lunar calendar year they had lived in. So I don’t think it has anything to do with Chinese idea of life begins at conception, either.
Your description of a birthday person pays for her/his party may also be confined to certain areas in China. Is it true in Beijing? Our nanny is from BJ. She always subtly told us about her birthday a few weeks before hand so that we could make arrangement to take her out to dinner. She also told us stories of her grown kids’ birthday parties in BJ, which were all treated by their friends in nice restaurants, etc.
christine Z
said,
December 19, 2007 at 4:18 pm
I came from Shanghai. My parents call it Xu Sui (虚岁). I was surprised not seeing any other one comment on this.
Roxie
said,
December 19, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Hi Ben, first of all, I think the Chinese say 虚岁 (Xu Sui) instead of 属岁 as mentioned in your blog. I’m not sure if this difference is due to the pronunciation of Fuzhou dialet. One’s 虚岁Xu Sui is always one year older than 周岁Zhou Sui or 实岁Shi Sui.
In regards to the question you raised, I read a book once and this is how it was explained – when you are born you are automatic 1, then when you pass the first Chinese new year (Lunar new year), you are one year older again. Then comes the time you pass your first birthday, and you are one year older yet again. So in your case, this is the reason why some Chinese friends may think you just turned 30. See on 18/12/79, you were 1; then on the Chinese new year the following year (probably sometime end of Jan or early Feb in 1980), you turned 2. Then on 18/12/80, you turned 3. If you go by this calculation, you have, in fact, just turned 30.
Hope this is clear
Cheers
Roxie
BTW I have been a long time reader of your blog. Happy 30th Birthday!! :p
羲
said,
December 20, 2007 at 3:40 am
the count method in chinese about the age> maybe i am not agree with you
our calculate mathod is the same as Americans.
for example, A was born on March 26 ,1986
A has 1 age on March 26 ,1987
A has 4 ages on March 26 ,1990
A has 5 ages from March 27 ,1990 to March 26 ,1991
and so on
about the payment, I am agree with your conception
maybe I like the western’s conceptions
but if you are a girl, maybe your boyfriend pay for the all ,haha
but
Benjamin Ross
said,
December 20, 2007 at 11:29 am
@Roxie/Christine
I think you may be right about 虚岁/属岁. Before I typed it, I was a bit unsure of it as well. Can anybody definitively clear this up and tell us which one is correct?
@Roxie
Your method of counting is exactly the one I had explained to me. So now here’s my question. If you gain a year twice in my first year, do I still gain a year twice every other year? If so, I should be 55 right now, not 30. Or is it just your first year when you have the double birthday? If so that would explain how I could conceivably be 30 right now, even though I was born December 18, 1979.
cc
said,
December 20, 2007 at 6:25 pm
I think there are a couple of mistakes in the above comments regarding “Xu Sui”. Ben, I don’t think there is such thing called “Shu Sui”.
As far as I know, the key different between “Xu Sui” (Virtural age” and “Zhou Sui” (Actual age) is the different thresholds used by these two counting systems for age increases. “Virtural age” counting uses the Chinese new year’s day as the watershed, whereas “actual age” counting uses the birthday, the birthday according to the Chinese Calendar.
In other words, virtual age is counted on the basis of how many Chinese new year’s eves you have lived through plus 1. Acutal age is counted on the basis of how many birthdays you have reached (excluding the day you are born).
When you are born, you are 0 year of age according to actual age counting. You won’t become 1 year old until your next birthday.
However, according to virtual age counting, you are already 1 year of age when you are born. On occasions, you may even become 2 years old in a few hours(minutes, seconds?) after you are born. For example, if you are just born on the Chinese new year’s eve, after your are born, you are 1 year old according to vrtual age counting. In a few hours after midnight, on the Chinese new year day you will be 2 years old because you have lived through 2 Chinese years. You will become 3 years old when the next Chinese new year’s day arrives. (not when your next birthday comes)
So, the difference between your actual age and virtual age depends on the month you are born. (Remember this is the month in the Chinese canlendar. When talking about Chinese virtual age and actual age counting, the notion of Gregorian calendar should be totally forgotten.) It can be either 1 or 2.
If you are born just shortly after the Chinese new year, say Feburary (remember this actually means the second month in the Chinese calendar year), If I ask you how old you are in April (hope you will be able to answer), you will say 1 year old, virtual age (Xu Sui), roughly 2 months old (0 year old), acutal age (Zhou Sui). You won’t tell me you are 1 year old, actual age, until next Feburary, your birthday. You will tell me you are 2 years old in next January (remember this actually means the first month in the Chinese calendar year), more acurately speaking, on and after the next Chinese new year’s day.
However, if you are born in December, the 12th month in the Chinese calendar year, in April next, you will tell people you are 5 months old, 0 year old according to actual age counting. At the same time, your virutal age (Xu Sui) will be 2. The difference will be reduced to 1 when you celebrate your birthday in next December. It will be widened to 2 again on the next Chinese new year’s day.
I hope I haven’t made too much mistake.
Roxie
said,
December 20, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Hi Ben
Sorry I wasn’t very clear in my last comment. You have to remember that historically Chinese people didn’t place much emphasis on celebrating birthdays until one is of a significant age, such as 50, 60, etc. In the past, normal people used count age by the Lunar New Year which, of course, also relates to the Chinese zodiac. Chinese Lunar New year was the only turning point as far as aging goes – everyone’s one year older on Chinese new year. In other words, you only gain one year once every year, not twice, except of course, for the first year because you are one when you are born.
So you see things were simple in the old days as people normally asked your Chinese zodiac sign when they wanted to know your age – as it’d be pretty accurate as the signs only repeat once every 12 years. This system was only made more complicated when people started adopting the western custom of celebrating individual’s birthdays every year!
Is this making sense?
BTW regarding 虚岁Xusui vs 属岁Shusui, I’m with cc and I’m quite confident it’s only called 虚岁Xusui.
Cheers
Roxie
cc
said,
December 21, 2007 at 3:02 am
Ben,
Here is the rule of thumb:
(Excluding the Chinese calendar year in which you are born) Within the same Chinese calendar year, if you want to convert your “zhou sui” to “xu sui” before your birthday (according to the Chinese calendar), you add 2; after your birthday, you add 1.
In your case, because you were born on 18th of December, 1979, that is roughly 1 to 2 month before the Chinese new year in 1980. In other words, you were probably born in 11th month of the Chinese calendar year then. According to the above rule of thumb, excluding the Chinese calendar year during which your actual age was 0, after that, wheneven you want to convert your actual age, “zhou sui” to virtual age, “xu sui”, before 18th of December, you add 2. You deduct 2 from your “xu sui” if you want to do otherwise. On 18th of December and thereafter until the next Chinese new year’s day (within the same Chinese calendar year), you add 1 on your “zhou sui” to get your “xu sui”, deduct 1 from ” xu sui” to get “zhou sui” .
At the moment, your “zhou sui” is 1 year “younger” than your “xu sui” because you have had your birthday a few days ago and the next Chinese new year has not arrived. On 6th of Feburary, 2008 (the Chinese new year’s day for 2008), your “xu sui” will gain anothe year so it will be 2 years older than your “zhou sui”.
Adopt the Chinese calendar now!
canrun
said,
December 21, 2007 at 3:34 am
Hopefully, in the spirit of your birthday you’ll finally thank me for my 崔健recommendations…
Really, man…I don’t ask much. But I’m ALL about doing the right thing.
Benjamin Ross
said,
December 21, 2007 at 11:21 am
I have checked with a Chinese friend (thanks Julia) who has told me that it is definitely 虚岁not 属岁. I guess I could partially blame my over-exposure to Fujian pu tong hua, in which xu, su, and shu, are essentially the same. As for the character 属, I have no idea where I came up with that, so thanks to everybody for pointing out the error.
By the way, I want to encourage everybody who reads this blog to back away from your keyboard and take a moment of silence to thank canrun for his 崔健 recommendations……………………….Canrun, thanks for all you do for me. If it weren’t for your lofty recommendations, I would still be jamming out to 刀郎.
edjusted
said,
December 21, 2007 at 10:01 pm
I’m Chinese, but I’m not entirely clear on the reasoning, but I think Roxie has it: you’re one when you’re born, and you add a year during Chinese New Year, and that’s it. Your “real” birthday doesn’t really matter after you’re born.
Also, I notice that people (older people especially) seem to ask me my zodiac animal (sorry, I don’t have Chinese installed on this comp) instead of asking my age. Of course, that could just be an easy way around the whole confusion!
canrun
said,
December 22, 2007 at 4:57 am
Atta Boy!
Though your comment drips with sarcasm, I was only following your request:
“Can canrun or anybody else recommend some good cui jian tunes? I have downloaded a few from baidu, but they were not the groundbreaking Chinese rock I had anticipated, and please note my liberal use of the word “groundbreaking.”’
Anyhow-bout’ bloody time! You were forcing me to do my best Nanheyangrouchuan imitation!
I’m off for some good Richard Clyderman-inspired relaxation now…
shockresist
said,
December 23, 2007 at 12:56 pm
based a recent experience i had with some beijing college students, i find this experience funny. i’m of chinese descent, so i’ve always celebrated two birthdays, one based on the gregorian calendar, and one from the lunar calendar. so i thought this was a common phenomenon that chinese people all over the world. then when i asked some beijing friends over lunch one day, they said that they only celebrate their gregorian calendar birthday! how strange is that? i’m more chinese that the “real” chinese.
and happy birthday ben! have a happy christmas eve, and a merry christmas!!
danjo
said,
December 25, 2007 at 1:20 am
Interesting post, I’ve been confused about this topic despite asking Chinese friends about it several times, and I didn’t know the Chinese terms. If you like 崔健 (I kind of like his cover of Communist anthem 南泥湾 as well as 一无所有 for its involvement with the Democracy movement) I would also listen to 许巍, such as the songs 曾经的你 and 完美生活. Also, 在雨中 by 汪峰.
dd
said,
January 3, 2008 at 1:34 am
, one based on the gregorian calendar, and one from the lunar calendar. so i thought this was a common phenomenon that chinese people all over the world. then when i asked some beijing friends over lunch one day, they said that they only celebrate their gregorian calendar birthday! how strange is that? i’m more chinese that
Sue
said,
January 7, 2008 at 4:58 am
I’m not (that) old, but when I ask a Chinese person’s age, I normally ask their Chinese Zodiac sign (你属什么的？）. This way, you can easily work out the age, and get a real answer especially for ladies above certain age nowadays (western influence here)
I’m aware of 虚岁，实岁，but never used 虚岁myself, nor have any people I know around me. I’m from Chongqing area. However, last year, I heard for first time in Chongqing that men is to celebrate their x10 birthday the year before (i.e. celebrate 70’s birthday when they actually turn 69 （周岁）。But women celebrate their x10 birthday when they actually turn x10 周岁。 So that means men celebrate their 虚岁生日，women celebrate their 实岁生日。I forgot to ask why.
I do have a theory about the 虚岁 though。I heard it somewhere that the zero concept was understood way after other numbers such as 1, 2, 3. So perhaps the 虚岁concept came before 实岁，at the time when people only know to start counting from 1. Just a wild guess.
豪杰
said,
March 13, 2008 at 6:14 pm
From http://ecumenicalbuddhism.blogspot.com/2008_02_07_archive.html:
Seventh day of the new year
The seventh day, traditionally known as renri 人日, the common man’s birthday, the day when everyone grows one year older.
It is the day when tossed raw fish salad, yusheng, is eaten. This is a custom primarily among the overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia, such as Malaysia and Singapore. People get together to toss the colourful salad and make wishes for continued wealth and prosperity.
For many Chinese Buddhists, this is another day to avoid meat.
john riley
said,
April 15, 2008 at 6:04 pm
I have recently married a lady from china. She still lives there. Her birthday by our calendar system is April 20th. But she says that she does not celebrate her birthday until sometime in May. I am trying to find out which day in May she would celebrate it. Can you help me.