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	<title>Comments on: Confucius says&#8230;Read These Blogs</title>
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	<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/</link>
	<description>Urban Sociology and Urbanism, in China and North America</description>
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		<title>By: Tong</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33904</link>
		<dc:creator>Tong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33904</guid>
		<description>I can see why Jinan is just another boring city for people growing up with a different cultural, but with poems about 大明湖(Da Ming Lake?) that every Chinese pupil grows up with, Jinan meant something quite different to me. As to Qufu, I was in awe when I was there. Is it because I was little when I visited or because this was where it all started, where Chinese were shaped to what it meant to be Chinese. I don&#039;t know, but I do know Qufu means quite differently to Chinese, me at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see why Jinan is just another boring city for people growing up with a different cultural, but with poems about 大明湖(Da Ming Lake?) that every Chinese pupil grows up with, Jinan meant something quite different to me. As to Qufu, I was in awe when I was there. Is it because I was little when I visited or because this was where it all started, where Chinese were shaped to what it meant to be Chinese. I don&#8217;t know, but I do know Qufu means quite differently to Chinese, me at least.</p>
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		<title>By: T.</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33794</link>
		<dc:creator>T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33794</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t I recommend some of these blogs earlier (I&#039;m specifically thinking about Imagethief)

Actually I just wanted to see what flag came up when I posted (I&#039;m in Taipei)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t I recommend some of these blogs earlier (I&#8217;m specifically thinking about Imagethief)</p>
<p>Actually I just wanted to see what flag came up when I posted (I&#8217;m in Taipei)</p>
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		<title>By: Ji Village News</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33752</link>
		<dc:creator>Ji Village News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33752</guid>
		<description>Chris,

To answer your question, I believe there is a connection. One thing we used to make is 塌煎饼 (take the second meaning of 塌 in my 新华字典: 下垂 and by extension, 软). The filling is usually made of chives, eggs, rice vermicelli, hot green chili. To make it, you make a 煎饼 as usual by spreading the paste on the cast iron. But before it is done, you put that filling on top, fold it, and turn it a few times so it is fully cooked. My parents love it. I am not too crazy about it.

The Beijing and Tianjin snack version follows similar principals and methods. The base is probably from a mixture of plain wheat flour and water. It is much thinner than the 煎饼 paste, almost soupy. I haven&#039;t tried it in a long time now, at least that&#039;s how I remembered it when I was working in a bank in Beijing Hepingmen/Liulichang area.

Hotpot sounds good. The last time I had a proper hotpot was in 1995.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>To answer your question, I believe there is a connection. One thing we used to make is 塌煎饼 (take the second meaning of 塌 in my 新华字典: 下垂 and by extension, 软). The filling is usually made of chives, eggs, rice vermicelli, hot green chili. To make it, you make a 煎饼 as usual by spreading the paste on the cast iron. But before it is done, you put that filling on top, fold it, and turn it a few times so it is fully cooked. My parents love it. I am not too crazy about it.</p>
<p>The Beijing and Tianjin snack version follows similar principals and methods. The base is probably from a mixture of plain wheat flour and water. It is much thinner than the 煎饼 paste, almost soupy. I haven&#8217;t tried it in a long time now, at least that&#8217;s how I remembered it when I was working in a bank in Beijing Hepingmen/Liulichang area.</p>
<p>Hotpot sounds good. The last time I had a proper hotpot was in 1995.</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33715</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33715</guid>
		<description>Hi Ben

Thanks for the interesting posts. I was in both Qufu and Qingdao 2 years ago and will be taking a group of young people from the Uk in October. Your visit of Shandong is very much as I remember it. If you have time in Qufu the university is very interesting and we also went to an open air performance about Confucius which was in a huge auditorium, fascinating.

Thanks again
Hilary</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ben</p>
<p>Thanks for the interesting posts. I was in both Qufu and Qingdao 2 years ago and will be taking a group of young people from the Uk in October. Your visit of Shandong is very much as I remember it. If you have time in Qufu the university is very interesting and we also went to an open air performance about Confucius which was in a huge auditorium, fascinating.</p>
<p>Thanks again<br />
Hilary</p>
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		<title>By: chriswaugh_bj</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33699</link>
		<dc:creator>chriswaugh_bj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33699</guid>
		<description>Dammit, Mr Ji! Having just read that comment of yours I want to jump on my bike and pedal manically off in a Shandong kinda direction and try out all that great food! Fortunately for my legs my wife has promised to cook up a hotpot tonight. Still, we will have to get down to Shandong one of these days, for both the food and the history. 

Question: Is there a relationship between the Shandong 煎饼 and that which can be commonly bought on the streets of Beijing and Tianjin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dammit, Mr Ji! Having just read that comment of yours I want to jump on my bike and pedal manically off in a Shandong kinda direction and try out all that great food! Fortunately for my legs my wife has promised to cook up a hotpot tonight. Still, we will have to get down to Shandong one of these days, for both the food and the history. </p>
<p>Question: Is there a relationship between the Shandong 煎饼 and that which can be commonly bought on the streets of Beijing and Tianjin?</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Ross</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33689</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 06:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33689</guid>
		<description>Haidong (Ji Village News)-
  
Thank you for this most excellent rundown of the Shandong tortilla and bread making process.  The tortillas I had were indeed called 单饼.  According to the restaurant owners I&#039;ve talked to here, they are also hand made.  They taste like it too, but then again, I am by no means a Shandong tortilla expert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haidong (Ji Village News)-</p>
<p>Thank you for this most excellent rundown of the Shandong tortilla and bread making process.  The tortillas I had were indeed called 单饼.  According to the restaurant owners I&#8217;ve talked to here, they are also hand made.  They taste like it too, but then again, I am by no means a Shandong tortilla expert.</p>
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		<title>By: Ji Village News</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33680</link>
		<dc:creator>Ji Village News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 04:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33680</guid>
		<description>Cool, Ben. I am glad you are enjoying your stay in my neck of the woods!

The wheat flour tortilla thing is called 单饼 in my local version of Mandarin. Growing up in the 70s, it was considered a delicacy, as it is made out of soft wheat flour.

The more common type of bread is called 煎饼. Here is the original way of making it: First, grains were mixed in water. The grains can be just wheat, sorghum, soy beans, even dried sweet potato slices (地瓜干儿) that you mentioned in your 于谦 post. When the mixture was ready, it would be processed by mill stones into paste. Mill stones are made out of two round stones stacked vertically, with the top stone being pushed in a circular fashion, by a donkey, mule or human. My two older brothers and I had plenty of that experience. A spoon or a small half-gourd was used to feed the grain and water mixture into the hole on the top stone as we pushed the top stone around. This process is called 打糊子 in the local slang.

The resulting paste was then gathered and put next to a big round cast iron (鏊子). The cast iron is around 110 centimeters in diameter, I&#039;d say. It is positioned just slightly above the ground. My mom, an elementary school teacher (民办教师), usually squats or sits on the floor there, and burns corn stalks and wheat straws to heat it up. Then she scoops up a spoonful of the paste and spreads it around the iron. The result, a thin and round bread, is 煎饼. This bread can be put into a big basket, 煎饼筐子, and stored as is. It can also be folded into a smaller rectangle for easy storage. Kids in my region, grown up in the 80&#039;s, when going to boarding middle and high schools, would carry a bag full of those rectangles (煎饼卷子) for weeks, or even full month&#039;s bread supply. If I could have 辣椒炒肉丝 (pork with spicy green peppers) during my childhood years, the type you had in Jinan, folded inside that bread, believe me, it was heaven on earth!

The method of making that bread changed quickly in the 80s, in that it is mostly done by machines. Probably nobody makes the paste the old-fashioned way now. In fact, most of people, including villagers, buys that bread from the market nowadays.

Now the 单饼 (flour tortilla) is made a little differently. The first part is very similar to making dumpling wrappers, only the size is bigger. Obviously it is made out of a dough (no yeast added and not paste), so one could bake and turn this on a smaller cast iron with hand. When we had guests during my childhood years, we sometimes made 单饼 as a treat for them. (Sometimes we even killed a chicken roaming the yard and made 辣子鸡 for guests. How else could one afford meat?)

Obviously pure wheat 煎饼 (no other type of grain added) was good and rare then. On the other hand, 煎饼 made out of dried sweet potato slices (瓜干儿煎饼) and sorghum (高梁煎饼) were considered of lower quality. 所谓瓜干儿煎饼老咸菜. Now with people richer than before, 瓜干儿煎饼 and 高梁煎饼 are considered delicacies now, go figure!

A famous thing in my childhood is 煎饼卷大葱, essentially one or two whole green onions folded inside a 煎饼. When one&#039;s financial condition was looking up , one could put a few drops of sesame oil in it. I like 煎饼卷大葱 with 老咸菜 (pickled vegetables). It is really delicious, an acquired taste out of necessity.

Tora:
Great comments and I see your points. However, for ancient Chinese history buff, 泰山 and 曲阜 (Qufu) is a must!

Sorry for making such a long comment here Ben. Hopefully you will find it interesting. I think I will post this on my own blog as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool, Ben. I am glad you are enjoying your stay in my neck of the woods!</p>
<p>The wheat flour tortilla thing is called 单饼 in my local version of Mandarin. Growing up in the 70s, it was considered a delicacy, as it is made out of soft wheat flour.</p>
<p>The more common type of bread is called 煎饼. Here is the original way of making it: First, grains were mixed in water. The grains can be just wheat, sorghum, soy beans, even dried sweet potato slices (地瓜干儿) that you mentioned in your 于谦 post. When the mixture was ready, it would be processed by mill stones into paste. Mill stones are made out of two round stones stacked vertically, with the top stone being pushed in a circular fashion, by a donkey, mule or human. My two older brothers and I had plenty of that experience. A spoon or a small half-gourd was used to feed the grain and water mixture into the hole on the top stone as we pushed the top stone around. This process is called 打糊子 in the local slang.</p>
<p>The resulting paste was then gathered and put next to a big round cast iron (鏊子). The cast iron is around 110 centimeters in diameter, I&#8217;d say. It is positioned just slightly above the ground. My mom, an elementary school teacher (民办教师), usually squats or sits on the floor there, and burns corn stalks and wheat straws to heat it up. Then she scoops up a spoonful of the paste and spreads it around the iron. The result, a thin and round bread, is 煎饼. This bread can be put into a big basket, 煎饼筐子, and stored as is. It can also be folded into a smaller rectangle for easy storage. Kids in my region, grown up in the 80&#8217;s, when going to boarding middle and high schools, would carry a bag full of those rectangles (煎饼卷子) for weeks, or even full month&#8217;s bread supply. If I could have 辣椒炒肉丝 (pork with spicy green peppers) during my childhood years, the type you had in Jinan, folded inside that bread, believe me, it was heaven on earth!</p>
<p>The method of making that bread changed quickly in the 80s, in that it is mostly done by machines. Probably nobody makes the paste the old-fashioned way now. In fact, most of people, including villagers, buys that bread from the market nowadays.</p>
<p>Now the 单饼 (flour tortilla) is made a little differently. The first part is very similar to making dumpling wrappers, only the size is bigger. Obviously it is made out of a dough (no yeast added and not paste), so one could bake and turn this on a smaller cast iron with hand. When we had guests during my childhood years, we sometimes made 单饼 as a treat for them. (Sometimes we even killed a chicken roaming the yard and made 辣子鸡 for guests. How else could one afford meat?)</p>
<p>Obviously pure wheat 煎饼 (no other type of grain added) was good and rare then. On the other hand, 煎饼 made out of dried sweet potato slices (瓜干儿煎饼) and sorghum (高梁煎饼) were considered of lower quality. 所谓瓜干儿煎饼老咸菜. Now with people richer than before, 瓜干儿煎饼 and 高梁煎饼 are considered delicacies now, go figure!</p>
<p>A famous thing in my childhood is 煎饼卷大葱, essentially one or two whole green onions folded inside a 煎饼. When one&#8217;s financial condition was looking up , one could put a few drops of sesame oil in it. I like 煎饼卷大葱 with 老咸菜 (pickled vegetables). It is really delicious, an acquired taste out of necessity.</p>
<p>Tora:<br />
Great comments and I see your points. However, for ancient Chinese history buff, 泰山 and 曲阜 (Qufu) is a must!</p>
<p>Sorry for making such a long comment here Ben. Hopefully you will find it interesting. I think I will post this on my own blog as well.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33672</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 02:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33672</guid>
		<description>if you&#039;re in QD, make sure to climb good ol&#039; fushan for a view of the city and some fresh air...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you&#8217;re in QD, make sure to climb good ol&#8217; fushan for a view of the city and some fresh air&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33667</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 00:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33667</guid>
		<description>On Jinan, I told you!  But you will love Qingdao.  Make Steve take you to THE Sichuan restaurant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Jinan, I told you!  But you will love Qingdao.  Make Steve take you to THE Sichuan restaurant.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Ross</title>
		<link>http://benross.net/wordpress/confucius-saysread-these-blogs/2008/08/30/comment-page-1/#comment-33663</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 23:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benross.net/wordpress/?p=235#comment-33663</guid>
		<description>Tora-

I know what you mean about touristy gimmicks. This is part of the reason I will not be going to (...gasp) Tai Shan. That and the fact I&#039;m just not very interested in seeing temples or &#039;climbing&#039; mountains. I did, however, buy the full Confucius historic sight triple pass, (forest, mansion, temple), so today I&#039;m going to check out the Confucius Temple. I&#039;m not expecting much, but the Forest itself makes Qufu worth it. And actually, tourism aside, this little town is pretty interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tora-</p>
<p>I know what you mean about touristy gimmicks. This is part of the reason I will not be going to (&#8230;gasp) Tai Shan. That and the fact I&#8217;m just not very interested in seeing temples or &#8216;climbing&#8217; mountains. I did, however, buy the full Confucius historic sight triple pass, (forest, mansion, temple), so today I&#8217;m going to check out the Confucius Temple. I&#8217;m not expecting much, but the Forest itself makes Qufu worth it. And actually, tourism aside, this little town is pretty interesting.</p>
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